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Community Roundtable 11/04/05

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Community Roundtable transcript for 11/04/2005 meeting.




Blue Linden: If you haven't been to a community round table before, we operate on the SOAPBOX system......
Aurael Neurocam: well, the sim is finally slowing down.... and it only took 32 people to do it. :-)
Cory Edo: ZOMG I had SOAM in my head and now you replaced it with the damn FT theme song
Solar Ixtab: 34 :)
Blue Linden: you can click the box to be added to the queue and when it's your turn you right click and sit on it to have your say
Cory Edo starts humming scent of a mule instead
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Is Lex protesting Plywood?
Oz Spade: lad to esee 1.7 really fixed all lag issues ;P
Lex Neva: I dunno.
Blue Linden: it's very convenient....and very cleverly scripted
Mulch Ennui: or ul smell my mule
Psyra Extraordinaire: Shh. Listen to Grey Linden.
Lex Neva: I think I'm actually advertising for it.
Frans Charming: already here lo. :p
Lo Jacobs: Oh
Lo Jacobs: :P
Nala Galatea: I went to click on the box and instead ended up clicking on Frans' grey butt =O
Psyra Extraordinaire: Or just call him Monochrome Linden.
Blue Linden: hehe Psyra ;)
Frans Charming: haha
Harris Hare: heh
Oz Spade: Casablanca
Harris Hare: Grayscale Linden.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Oh I thought Blue just hadnt rezzed yet
Nala Galatea: Hiya hiya Jesse......that's two =D
Mulch Ennui: lmao harris
Psyra Extraordinaire: I'm sure the blue is inspired by his perpetual cheerfulness. ^^
Jesse Linden: Hiya Nala
Blue Linden: Thanks for coming all....if you haven't been privy to the mailing list emails, I will summarize the suggested topic in a minute
Cory Edo: you shall refer to him as The Mighty Unrezzed
joseph Khan: I dont have time to post a event,but if some of the people want to come to my ill run a repeater
Katt Kongo: ao off
Psyra Extraordinaire: Okie, that sounds like a translation of "It's shush time."
Blue Linden: But first I'd like to forward regrets from Robin and Pathfinder who couldn't be here today
Angelo Walcott: hi all
Blue Linden: It's not a full fledged meeting without them.....l.et's hope free pizza (behind me) will help fill the void :)
Nala Galatea: Awwwww, send love hugs and kisses to them from all of us =)
Blue Linden: Will do Nala!
Taco Rubio: she doesn't speak for me!
Lex Neva: sim's full now :o
Oz Spade: Pizza can only replace Pathfinder and Robin if it has extra cheese.
Psyra Extraordinaire: (Dang, there's a pizza joint in SL and I'm not working for them. That is a crime)
Lex Neva: and folks are bouncing at the door, heh
Blue Linden: I'll get started right away by summarizing the suggested topic, relevent to recent issues
Object whispers: System is keyed to DaVinci Doctorow
Blue Linden: In a nutshell..... SHOULD SL FEATURE A SYSTEM TO RELAY INFO ON KNOWN ISSUES TO RESIDENTS
The Soapbox: You are in the queue to speak. There are 2 people ahead of you after the current speaker has finished.
Sunshadow Skye: Like system status?
florenze Kerensky: cherokee, this is pg land
Blue Linden: if you did not get the email sent to community list (ask me how to join the list after meeting) it references, concisely, several
points relevent to recent issue....
Lo Jacobs: Oz <3
Blue Linden: the REPLICATING OBJECT GRIEF ATTACK.......and the 1.7 UPGRADE
Oz Spade: Lo :)
Frans Charming: Hi jesak
Frans Charming: jeska
Jeska Linden: :)
Blue Linden: suggesting that much rumor and panic might have been avoided with 1) faster info on the grief subject and 2) more info on know issues relating to 1.7
Nala Galatea: Hiya hiya Jeska *hugs*
Cory Edo: yay jeska! now I can pass you my do-not-suspend payoff early for November
Lex Neva: :o
Jeska Linden: hey everyone :)
Cory Edo: I kid I kid
Cory Edo: I'm really late on October's
Lex Neva: no, she asked me to take the payments for her this month
Psyra Extraordinaire: Shh. Please refrain from shady deals until after the meeting. :D
Blue Linden: Our question here on your favorite community team is HOW CAN WE BETTER INFORM PEOPLE OF THESE ISSUES TO PREVENT or ALLEVIATE THE FRUSTRATION ASSOCIATED WITH THEM
Jeska Linden: No, remember Lindens prefer their bribes in chocolate and pizza.
Cory Edo makes notes
Lo Jacobs: ^_^
Jeska Linden: ;)
Aurael Neurocam: I have 5 lbs of chocolate from Halloween
Frans Charming: o.O
Cory Edo: that's easier than the sex\
Blue Linden: hehe Jeska...today we are bribing THEM with pizza :D
Cory Edo: and cheaper
Moxie Grumby: hah!
Ingrid Ingersoll: hah
Jeska Linden: btw, i was kidding. except about the chocolate.
Frans Charming: lol
Cory Edo: via Fedex by 10AM or earlier to your doorstep good madam
Blue Linden: SO....before we kickstart the soapbox, let me relay some of the chat between jesse and I regarding the email sent to list
Psyra Extraordinaire: Okay, that's enough, behave, or I'm turning this virtual world around and we'll have Pizza Pockets instead for supper.
Blue Linden: I was aware of mailing list for technical issues, but Jesse pointed out that software_update@lindenlab.com list you are referring to which was created mainly to give people advance warnings of scheduled downtimes.
Blue Linden: We were wondering if perhaps worldwide blue-box announcements the way they happen on preview grid might be appreciated for pressing issues or if that would just be a whole lotta spam to most people
Blue Linden: SO.....we've got a couple in line for the soapbox :D
Blue Linden: click to add yourself and please don't set off the AUTO SHUSH feature by talking while someone is on the box......
Blue Linden: we will have time to discuss when they step down :)
Blue Linden: Nala, I think you've got the box first :)
Nala Galatea: =O
Nala Galatea: So just sit on it?
Blue Linden: right click and sit....it's fun :)
Psyra Extraordinaire: Potsie.
The Soapbox: Nala Galatea is on the soapbox now!
Aurael Neurocam: hehe
Ingrid Ingersoll: nice
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Nala Galatea: Ok, I'll be brief since we've got lots of people here.
Jessant Sion shouts: hey thanks for inviting us
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Nala Galatea: When I first came to SL, the thing that REALLY impressed me about this place was the fact that not only were the Lindens very accessible inworld, but that when things went wrong, Lindens were very quick to say what was going wrong
Nala Galatea: That really didn't happen this time.
Nala Galatea: And as a result, people were left to wonder
Nala Galatea: I personally think that, especially in times of crisis, LL needs to be very open with the community about what is going on and why.
Nala Galatea: Not to the point of technical giveaways, but enough so most can get a grip on what's happening and what's being done to correct it
Nala Galatea: That's my point and I'm stickin to it =)
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Blue Linden: heheh :D
Jeska Linden: Thanks Nala
Blue Linden: well as for there being less communication this time.....
Aurael Neurocam: if you type your questions ahead of time in Notepad, might help get them in faster. :-)
Nala Galatea: =)
Jesse Linden: agreed Nala
Blue Linden: that might've been in part due to the fact that MANY aspects of the update were far smoother than the last two biggies.....
Jeska Linden: If you look, Robin did post as soon as we knew what had happened "The space server crashed, possibly due to resident action. Since all simulators rely on it, we need to restart the entire grid. It looks like we'll be up in about an hour."
Lex Neva: are we talking about the grid-bomb or the 1.7 update...?
Blue Linden: but that's hardly an excuse for less communication, of course
Psyra Extraordinaire: The former.
Jeska Linden: As far as the grid issues on Sunday night go
Aurael Neurocam: both (?)
Nala Galatea: Actually both in this case
Jesse Linden: the problem might be that the forum accouncements are a primary means of communicating issues
Jesse Linden: and they are simply not widely read
Jeska Linden: Also, we had Lindens in world communicating what happened on Sunday as well - I know cause Pathfinder and I were both there helping spread information.
Ingrid Ingersoll: someone should show up on our doorsteps
Jeska Linden: ;)
Jeska Linden: With a pizza?
Blue Linden: both hehe....bouncing back from the bomb happened really quickly....I expect the gridmonkey received multiple proposals the next day :)
Ingrid Ingersoll: to tell us...with a candygram
Bodhi Kojima: yes, and beer
Nala Galatea: I think in situations like that, the blue box would most definitly have been appropriate =)
Aurael Neurocam: well, the blue-boxes are good enough (I think) to convey immediate emergency info
Blue Linden: a number of us came inworld to let people know what was going on
Jesse Linden: are blue boxes offensive?
Jonquille Noir: Or a notecard that auto-drops on log-in.
Jesse Linden: as spam
Nala Galatea: But I felt things were very vague as to what was going on.
Aurael Neurocam: love em
Psyra Extraordinaire: Adn the occassional cunfusing one like yesterday's "Good catch" ;)
Blue Linden: but world wide announcements might've helped?
Lo Jacobs: No. I don't mind blue boxes.
Nala Galatea: And no, blue boxes have never been spam to me, even when they went off every hour in the beginning =P
Sidra Stern: they are fine with me
Jeska Linden blushes
Moxie Grumby: love the blue boxes
Oz Spade: I think a better system is needed than blue boxs since... ywhen the grid is down we can't really read them.
Aurael Neurocam: I loved the hourly blue boxes. reminded me of how long I'd ben in world. I started missing bedtime more often after the hourlies stopped. ;-)
Mulch Ennui: and notecards hide in your inventory when you log in, which means they will be overlooked
Nala Galatea: WoW has a system message part that pops up when things are going screwy
Psyra Extraordinaire: Perhaps some people are thinking of the secondlife.com/status page, but... IIRC that was not accessable either during the attack(?)
Nala Galatea: Right at the login screen
Blue Linden: Aurael...maybe we have char do all announcents just for old time's sake ;)
Jesse Linden: Oz, we will make system status information more prominent on the website in the near future
Solar Ixtab: Wall messages (blue boxes) are great for when global problems happen that don't cause the whole grid to go down.
Aurael Neurocam: I remember Char. :-)
Aurael Neurocam wishes she could get her old name back
Oz Spade: Jesse, excellent :)
Frans Charming: Maybe we should make people beter aware that the Forum annouchments is LL primary way to communicate.
Jeska Linden: There are multiple places to check on grid status, http://secondlife.com/status/ for example, or the Forums Announcements.
Aurael Neurocam: the forums could be more visible
cua Curie: should have an offical news crawl. emergency notices in red, with clickable links
cua Curie: with the crawl on the website too
Nala Galatea: RSS feed I think
cua Curie: that too
Aurael Neurocam: that's a problem, Jeska: There's no easy link to the /status/ page, or if there is, I never found it
Taco Rubio: should we use the soapbox so we don't have to try to figure out what's being answered by whom when ?
Oz Spade: I think LL shuouldn't relie on the forums.
Jonquille Noir: There needs to be in in-world way to communicate too. Many people don't run SL in a window, and/or find having to load up another program intrusive
Nala Galatea: Yes, not all people in SL ever visit the forums
Maxx Monde: Thank jeebus.
Nala Galatea: =D
Aurael Neurocam: maybe link the Announcements forum from the main page?
Blue Linden: One of the problems is the fact that not everyone gets their info from one source
Aurael Neurocam: >>> URGENT ANNOUNCEMENT, CLICK HERE <<<
Nala Galatea: Or even use the community page to have something showing something if an issue comes up
Blue Linden: announcements would hit more people than the other methods
ReallyRick Metropolitan: What happened to the Soap Box? lol
Blue Linden: OKAY NEXT UP ON BOX PLEASE
Lex Neva: It would be cool if, when we aren't able to log in, a short status message appears _inside the client_
Oz Spade: I suggest a two part system, one part being on the website, such as secndlife.com/news and another part havig the same informatin inside the client.
Nala Galatea: That's what I was thinking Lex =)
Psyra Extraordinaire: If people check the anouncement forums themselves, it's easy. But when you check the New Posts link.. things in
Announcements tend to get buried quickly under posts of "I can't log in!" or "Keeps crashing" topics.
Aurael Neurocam: ooh, and a link directly to the forums from the client
Lex Neva: "Despite our best efforts, something bad happeend. Here's more info: ___"
Psyra Extraordinaire shuts up. :>
Blue Linden: NEXT ON SOAPBOX PLEASE RIGHT CLICK AND SIT :)
Aurael Neurocam: wno's next?
Lo Jacobs: Taco is
The Soapbox: Taco Rubio is on the soapbox now!
Blue Linden: Taco :)
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Psyra Extraordinaire: It's Taco Time.(tm)
Taco Rubio: oh
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Taco Rubio: Hi thanks. First off, I'd like you to know I absolutely plan to filabuster here.
Frans Charming: :)
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Taco Rubio: I guess what I don't understand is, how hard is it to put a button www.secondlife.com that says "current status".
Taco Rubio: It seems to me that more people could navigate to the website than through the cold, ugly, cruel forums, and could thusly find out what's going on.
Taco Rubio: Also ,and this is sort of key to me, update us often on the status. If you say an hour, and an hour passes, post again and tell us where you are with the problem and update the estimate.
Taco Rubio: That's all I can think of, this wasn't a good filabuster :( I'll take my answer off-air.
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
ReallyRick Metropolitan: So talk radio Taco :D
Jesse Linden: I can help field this one Blue
Psyra Extraordinaire: I was with ya up until 'filabuster'. I'll get back to you once I look that word up. :D
Solar Ixtab: lol Psyra
Psyra Extraordinaire: Edit: nvm. :>
Claude Desmoulins: Excuse me, Mashko.
Blue Linden: Sure Jesse :)
Jesse Linden: would some sort of red bar as in the 'CNN Breaking News' banner help on the homepage?
Aurael Neurocam: oh yes!
Nala Galatea: Yes
Frans Charming: yes!
annie Lily: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Hi.
Taco Rubio: YES
Aurael Neurocam: yesyesyes
Lo Jacobs: :D
Jesse Linden: or the community site homepage
Nala Galatea: Either or both =D
Frans Charming: both!
Jesse Linden: ok ill take that as a positive response
Psyra Extraordinaire: [X] Yes [ ] No
Verkin Raven: Front pagelooks neater (or both)
Jesse Linden: stay tuned..
annie Lily: both
Aurael Neurocam: speaking of which... it seems like the web server gets a little... bogged down.... when the grid is down
Oz Spade: Yes
Mulch Ennui: me likey
Frans Charming: upgrade!
Aurael Neurocam: maybe someone needs to lok in to that, and either upgrade bandwidth or server to handle it
Jeska Linden: We're working on scaling everything, including the web servers.
Aurael Neurocam: it's been that way since... well at least a year.
Jonquille Noir: Can you have one ticker across the every page of the webpage? Some people only check the forums and never notice the rest of the site
Aurael Neurocam shushing
Jesse Linden: I think the website will be a reliable backup when the grid is down
Mulch Ennui: jonq is correct, like dhtm style or ssi or something
Psyra Extraordinaire: [4000 Users] + [About a 'mere' 65mbps+ bandwidth each] = [A LOT of data flowing]
Blue Linden: MORE TIMELY, RELEVANT INFO ON WEBSITE = GOOD I can get behind that
Aurael Neurocam: could always host an IRC channel when the grid is down... it'd be like playing with our eyes closed. ;)
Frans Charming: haha
Blue Linden: AURAEL IS NEXT I BELIEVE :D
The Soapbox: Aurael Neurocam is on the soapbox now!
Frans Charming: there is a unofficial one
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Aurael Neurocam: I've dealt with the perils of customer service and programming in the past...
Aurael Neurocam: I was wondering if you could maybe set up a Bugzilla-like system that would let us see the status of updates, issues, known (and to be addressed) bugs, and the like.
Aurael Neurocam: then we wouldn't be alwyas asking "what's next? What's going on with that?"
Aurael Neurocam: we could see the same daily reports that (no doubt) the programmers enter in themselves into your internal workflow system
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Psyra Extraordinaire: That sounds like the voting system, only in bugreport format.
Psyra Extraordinaire: Crossed with a wiki.
Nala Galatea: Yes =)
Jonquille Noir: Didn;t we have a list of known bugs at one point?
Taco Rubio: in that it's ignored completly, Psyra?
Aurael Neurocam: I was thinking of something more day-by-day
Jeska Linden: Yes, we have the Feature voting to collect information on wanted features (secondlife.com/vote) and the Known Issues tracker (http://secondlife.com/support/bugtracker.php)
Aurael Neurocam: which is what we did at the banking software comapny I worked at
Boliver Oddfellow: sounds like an internal secuirturity breech waiting to happen
Oz Spade: I'd like it better fi it was LL only updating it.
Nala Galatea: Or at least updated when work on a bug has been done
Jeska Linden: which I think does what you're looking for...
Blue Linden: we do have a bugzilla system....I wonder how much of that can be made public. I'll follow up on that this week
Aurael Neurocam: thanks, Blue. :-)
Psyra Extraordinaire: Well, other than Vektor mentioning it to us in the Preview 1.7 group....
Nala Galatea is pulling up webpage
Jeska Linden: Blue - we do have a bugtracker on the site, but I'm not sure if it's still updated.
Enabran Templar: Wow, everyone is here.
Aurael Neurocam: btw: I think the problem with the voting system is that people use it for the dumbest things, so the good proposals get lost
Nala Galatea: Ok, bugtracker is definitely not organized =P
Psyra Extraordinaire: Very true.
Aurael Neurocam: maybe if nobody votes on something afte a few days, it coudl get silelntly dropped
Blue Linden: more bug awareness feeds back on itself, helping people understand the difference between SL bugs, ISP problems and "user error"......
Blue Linden: which never happens with SL's savvy residency :D
Psyra Extraordinaire: Problem is though.... some people like to vote on those pointless things.
Aurael Neurocam: the
Blue Linden: REALLYRICK IS UP NEXT :D
Nala Galatea: I think using the voting system with the bugtracker (and definitely organizing/catagorizing it better) would be splendid =)
The Soapbox: ReallyRick Metropolitan is on the soapbox now!
ReallyRick Metropolitan: I will be quick too - notecarded it. :D
ReallyRick Metropolitan: I know that I personally wouldn't be oppossed to Blue Pop-Ups with inportant messages. I wouldn't find that spam at all because it is easy to click it off in a second.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: What I would like to see is an entire section under the FIND tab. Called INFORMATION and such with MOTD annoucements and information that would normally be posted in the Linden Annoucement thread in the foumrs since many people dont read the forums.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Or maybe when you sign on, like we have to do with the TOS, there is a pop-up one can look through with information and click close before being all the way logged in.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: When the Grid is down or people cannot log in yes, something VERY NOTICEABLE on the main SL.com page would be needed!
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Last night a LARGE majority of people could not sign in for a period of time and there was no annoucement from LL on what was going on and so people flooded liasions and the forums with questions.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Even a Liason should have some type of power to be able to post a simple message that says, "We are aware that some are experience log-in problems and are working to correct this."
ReallyRick Metropolitan: I think people feel somewhat better at least KNOWING it is not a problem with them but is something many are experiencing.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Thank you
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Taco Rubio: Yay rick
Oz Spade: I agree with all of that :D
Jonquille Noir: Great idea with the Find thing, RR
Oz Spade: And is exactly what i'd want.
Moxie Grumby: seconded
annie Lily: I agree with what rick said
Blue Linden: Yeah, I love it :D
Pratyeka Muromachi: thirded
FireEyes Fauna: fourthed
Aurael Neurocam: yeah
Frans Charming: aye
Jonquille Noir: It'd also be a good place to store archived MOTDs
Aurael Neurocam: maybe pull the text directly from the announcements forum. no need to double-post it
Jesse Linden: if someone wants to get clever
Psyra Extraordinaire: This is true..... the login problems persisted for an hour.... three Lindens were on in the IRC channel but all were 3+
hours idle. People were hoping for an announcement here when an announcement on the forums didn't happen. :>
Mulch Ennui: yes very good idea rick, ull get ur bear in no time thinking like that
Jesse Linden: build an rss feeder HUD attachment
Psyra Extraordinaire: *announcement tehre
Jesse Linden: tied to the forum announcements
Aurael Neurocam: Jesse: llSetText doesn't work on HUD attachments
Jesse Linden: ahh NVR mind then
Aurael Neurocam: at least not for me
Aurael Neurocam: :-)
Blue Linden: XYtext perhaps
Frans Charming: But not everyone will have that attachment
Oz Spade: Ehhh, that may be good temporarily, but overall we definitly need a built in system.
Aurael Neurocam: it WOULD be nice, tho, if LSL could (xytext - eewwww!) pull from HTTP servers
Jeska Linden: We are making progress - for example, when the grid is down now, the "status" page on the web site will appear when you attempt to login to your account
Enabran Templar: XYText makes me cry. Especially with the current texture problems
Oz Spade: The best solution for information exposure is one as such Rick proposed.
Solar Ixtab: There's already a display MOTD function in the client
Solar Ixtab: Perhasp that can be expanded.
Jeska Linden: We will also remind everyone to post to the announcements when there is unscheduled down time that occurs outside the business hours - since that seems to be the times when it's not quickly updated.
Frans Charming: Not noticable enough
Jonquille Noir: It would be nice if that MOTD was saved somewhere. I usually fart off during log-in and miss it
Blue Linden: I think that Karen and Chris did a great job dumping info into the Announcements thread.....BUT.....it was suggested on mailing
list that somethings needed more advance notice
Solar Ixtab: Jonquille - Help > Message Of The Day
Blue Linden: It might make sense to send out a WHAT TO EXPECT email before update
Jonquille Noir: Thanks Solar!
Boliver Oddfellow: now that is a good idea
Frans Charming: yes blue!
Blue Linden: NEXT UP IS THE LOVELY OZ SPADE :D
Oz Spade: That's not a bad idea Blue.
Enabran Templar: Blue, that'd definitely save aus a few OMG ITS BROKEN threads
The Soapbox: Oz Spade is on the soapbox now!
Oz Spade: Well, I was going to propose something, but ReallyRi k did a great deal of saying exactly what I was thinking.
Oz Spade: I'd like to reiterate that some cross-form of information is needed, both on the website and in-world.
Oz Spade: MY other suggestion is that perhaps we could hold these meetings somewhere less lagy, Pathfinders house is great, but all the objects don't help with all the avatars either, perhaps some mostly-
Oz Spade: empty sim could be the next host.
Oz Spade: Thats all :)
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Aurael Neurocam: The Lindens own a huge empty sim where their recruitment center is
Frans Charming: isn't that this sim
Nala Galatea: Ummmmm, that's this sim
Blue Linden: Yes, I think this meeting is an eye opener.....next time we should be on sim edge at the very least
Dnate Mars: but waterhead is a TH sim too
annie Lily: I agree Oz....as long as both places get the info...thats going to help alot
Aurael Neurocam: that's what I was thinking of: Waterhead
Oz Spade: I turned off local lighting and I'm still getting very little FPS.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Or the 4 corner Town Hall Locations at teh very least
Psyra Extraordinaire: I agree with the sim note. Even if sims like Supernova can be temporarily resurrected for use.
Dnate Mars: don't want to fill a TH sim
Blue Linden: See what happens when you say FREE PIZZA
Aurael Neurocam: maybe do something to let more people listen in. :-)
Solar Ixtab: lol Blue
Aurael Neurocam: what's a TH sim?
Solar Ixtab: telehub
Psyra Extraordinaire: Well, repeaters were mentioned in the meeding a few months back.
Dnate Mars: Telehub sim
Nala Galatea: TeleHub
Frans Charming: TeleHub
Aurael Neurocam: ahh
Oz Spade: I think the system for ifnformation would work best if Lindens just have to update one document and have both in-world and website pull the data from a databse perhaps.
Nala Galatea nods at Oz =)
Blue Linden: we should set up relays perhaps....BUT WE DIGRESS ;)
Aurael Neurocam: that's what I was thinking, too
Oz Spade: That way it'd be simple and both would have the same information.
annie Lily: exactly
ReallyRick Metropolitan: There is a 4 corner Town Hall location use that
Blue Linden: OZ: HTML on a prim will solve the problem of multiple format messages to hit large % of audience
Oz Spade: Four corners work great, but you also add more people which causes more lag.
Aurael Neurocam: too bad that in-world HTML renderer died
Blue Linden: combine web and inworld methods effectively
Enabran Templar: HTML-on prim! :D
Psyra Extraordinaire: Well, there is a mimic of the old Stage Four near the Lime TH, but it doesnt work well since two of those sims have a maximum of 10 users for some reason.
Oz Spade: True Blue, perhaps when the inw-world html comes in, you guys could have it pop-up on login if there are issues.
Blue Linden: URL on a prim hehe
Taco Rubio: lol True Blue
Aurael Neurocam: I remember Stage 4. I couldn't find it last time I looked.
Jonquille Noir: You'd still have to get to where the prim is, wouldn't you?
Oz Spade: STage 4 is now the middle of the new WA in Ahern
Lo Jacobs: The old Stage 4 doesn't exist anymore. The WA took its place.
Oz Spade: There are two similar stages in De Hero and Lime/Plum
Meridian Maginot: The MOTDs have too-obvious basic info in them most of the time, they need more refreshing.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: We had a meeting with Lawrence Linden at a 4 corner sim recently as well as teh Greeter meeting
Nala Galatea still thinks a system message at the login screen is the best bet to reach everyone =)
Blue Linden: supposedly you could pick up "news HUD" Jonq.....then distribution is the issue
Oz Spade: Nala, agreed.
Lo Jacobs: I'd like to see some Mentor meetings.
Lo Jacobs: We never have those
Lo Jacobs: I'm not a Greeter/Live Helper too
Blue Linden: HARRIS takes the box next....IF HE DARES
Oz Spade: Some login-screen thing, then once you login (if you can) also some in-world thing.
Aurael Neurocam: LOL
Moxie Grumby: thumbs up lo!
Nala Galatea: Yes Oz, That would be the ideal =)
Jonquille Noir: I think you're going to have to take the news to the people, since the people don't seem to go to the news.
Psyra Extraordinaire: Right now a big push is for a good in-game new users guide... but that';s drifting off topic for the moment.Oz Spade: Lo, definitly.
ReallyRick Metropolitan: I dont see Harris
Aurael Neurocam: if the SL client rendered HTML, it would be easy to merge web sites with the SL client
Frans Charming: next to me, rick
Psyra Extraordinaire: He's right in frnt of the box. But he is not on it.
Blue Linden: HARRIS HARE, YOU HERE?
Aurael Neurocam: regardless of whether it's in a Prim... in a window is fine with me
The Soapbox: Harris Hare is on the soapbox now!
Harris Hare: I'll ditto what some have already suggested. Time critical info ought to be delivered directly to our clients upon connecting.
Harris Hare: Blue boxes are fine but only only work for those already in world and only work for short messages. You could blue box those in world when an event occurs and then use ReallyRick's idea to post details in a special area of the client.
Psyra Extraordinaire: /cheer
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Harris Hare: But use a method similar to the window that is displayed when a sim is upgraded to deliver current event info upon connecting and have that info time out when the event is over.
Harris Hare: Finally, if the grid is down, build into the client a way of delivering details directly rather that pointing to the website. In all, it just seems like the client should handle this stuff. That's all. :)
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Blue Linden: WOOT...nicely done Harris :)
Aurael Neurocam agrees with everything the rabbit said
Psyra Extraordinaire: That sort of brings my "Make the information come up before connection, not after" part.
Nala Galatea: Yes totally Harris =D
Blue Linden: rabbits sure do type quickly @_@
Oz Spade: Agreed again :D
Mulch Ennui: if the client cant connect tho...?
Taco Rubio: wot mulch said
Jonquille Noir: They do lots of stuff quickly
Harris Hare: There's no techincal reason that a message could not be displayed after a timeout.
Oz Spade: Then you goto the website Muclh, perhaps some note-box comes up telling the user to do such.
Frans Charming: lol
Nala Galatea: The client can get the info from other places though
Mulch Ennui: oz, it does tha tnow send ius to status page
Psyra Extraordinaire: Why not right in the screen when you type in your name/pw?
Aurael Neurocam: yeah, the client wouldn't even have to connect to pull http down from the SL web server
Blue Linden: Most major issue prompt post-login-failure pointer to website
Oz Spade: Ah, then there you go. :)
Jeska Linden: Yeah, there is an error message I believe.
Mulch Ennui: i like the site wide cnn news ticker, makes the world seem more alive. status page is a bit, sterile
Nala Galatea: Yes Mulch I agree
Dnate Mars: better updating of the error messages would be helpful
Psyra Extraordinaire: People seeem to find the "Despite our best efforts, something has gone wrong" page confusing, according to forums. They assume it's something on their end.
Jesse Linden: we could abuse the news ticker like Fox News
Jonquille Noir: Plus tickers are cool. You could scrawl nifty messages when there's no urgent news.
Lo Jacobs: Haha
Nala Galatea: Please do Jesse =D
ReallyRick Metropolitan: Fox News? lol
Jesse Linden: Breaking News!
Psyra Extraordinaire: THIS JUST IN!
Aurael Neurocam hasn't been abused enough lately
Mulch Ennui: rephrase the to "any ticker but fox" news
Lo Jacobs: "Breaking News - Jesse had pizza for lunch today"
Justice Soothsayer: Fair and balanced coverage of upgrades
Nala Galatea is hungry now >.<
Harris Hare: More info is always better than not-enough-info.
Jesse Linden: yes lol
Johnathan Padar: fire went out?
Oz Spade: "Philip Chokes on pretzle, Bub performs himlick, all end fine." Breaking News: (via Psyra Extraordinaire) Testerd1 Tester has kidney removed, but he still has the other one."
Johnathan Padar: ahh still hottt
Lo Jacobs: lol
Johnathan Padar: ahh,.big comfy couch thing
Psyra Extraordinaire: Okay. Just so long as it doesn' get auctioned off for adverisements. If any viagra ads appear on said Breaking News bar, I'm so outta here.
Nala Galatea: lol
annie Lily: lol
Aurael Neurocam agrees
Frans Charming: hehe
Oz Spade: AGreed
Blue Linden: TOPIC NICELY HASHED, IF YOU"D LIKE TO INTRODUCE NEW COMMUNITY TOPICS DURING YOUR RIDE ON THE SOAPBOX, FEEL FREE :)
Blue Linden: GORKY GORKY is NEXT NEXT
Jonquille Noir: heh
The Soapbox: Gorky Gorky is on the soapbox now!
Psyra Extraordinaire: Need more Gorky.
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Nala Galatea would, but her idea got smooshed in the forums so she
won't bring it up again =P
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Gorky Gorky: I prewrote something before Rick's idea came through, and it was basically the same thing. I'd just like to expand a bit on this and suggest an 'Information' tab in the 'Find' box.
Gorky Gorky: This could have text files that are fetched from the web site. Examples of what could be in there is newbie help, a few tutorials, release notes, and so on. If the grid's down, we could just get the tab in question or a button that will take us to a page
Gorky Gorky: that links to these files.
Gorky Gorky: I think this would be nonintrusive and still get information out when it's needed. Thank you.
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Taco Rubio: gorky
Blue Linden: ty :)
Aurael Neurocam: hmm... that might be an interesting upgrade for the soap box... just drop in a notecard and it chats it out
Oz Spade: I like that idea. Not just restricted to News, but could also have Announcements like the forums do, but in world.
Nala Galatea: Yes, a really good beginner's help section =)
Oz Spade: That too, the current in-world help sucks.
Lo Jacobs: :O
Dnate Mars: is not the wiki a great guide?
Gorky Gorky: I think it would be a nice way to get user-written tutorials out to the public.
Nala Galatea: Possibly link the new tutorial videos to be watched outside of SL
Oz Spade: There is the support Wiki, haven't checked that in awhile.
Blue Linden: Wiki is buried, would be nice to have that closer to top level
Harris Hare: Heck, you could even build a forums viwer into the client... but that's an idea for another day. ;)
Gorky Gorky: The assorted wikis are nice and all, but new users may not know where they are.
Oz Spade: Gorky, good idea as well.
Nala Galatea: Yes Blue I agree =)
Aurael Neurocam: yeah, Wiki is hard to find
Katt Kongo: The Messenger is working on a Newcomer's Guide in PDF format
Lethe Naumova: new users get absolutely covered in information, something simple and direct would be nice
Blue Linden: perhaps a wiki search field on top support page of site
Dnate Mars: it is under "support", but then that entire page should be redone to make things easier....
Jesse Linden: yes, wiki is buried, agreed
Dnate Mars: all the support numbers are even burried
Jeska Linden: You can get to itfrom the clint too odon't forge.
Mulch Ennui: the forums can sometimes be... less than helpful. i think a seperate find tab would help people stay away from the muck, less chance of being baited into things and just ge tplain info out
Oz Spade: Ew PDF :P
Aurael Neurocam: Even with all the info available in the welcome area, I still see people walking around saying, "What is there to do?
Nala Galatea: Yes, that should all be on the front page of the support site
Jeska Linden: If you go to "Help" it's up there
Psyra Extraordinaire: Newbie help is ... words cannot describe the level of need. I could tell a story just regarding yesterday morning on this.... but I posted in the 'Queuing new account creations' thread and it kind of says all already.
Nala Galatea really needs to make that newbie class she got made an Instructor for =P
Aurael Neurocam: well, I'd think that if forum info was available in the SL client, it would only be the read-only stuff
Solar Ixtab: We just need to clone ReallyRick a few times :)
Oz Spade: Perhaps some inw-rold location with easy step by step tutorasls?
Mulch Ennui: lmao
Aurael Neurocam read that and agrees
Psyra Extraordinaire: Well, in the past, there was an 'intro to SL' class at least once a day..... we just don't have the amount of c lasses we once had. :(
Oz Spade: Using videsos perhaps? Sorry for my typing, lagging.
Nala Galatea: And Stage 4 used to be right by the newbie area so it was easy to access too
Aurael Neurocam: I'd like to see interactive demos.
Harris Hare: There are aparently some new-user videos already availble in world now.
Nala Galatea remembers good ol days gone by
Aurael Neurocam: done in-world with voice-overs
Oz Spade: I miss the old no-topic events at Stage 4
Psyra Extraordinaire: There are the videos in the Need Help shelter in the WA but most people have said they don't have the patience to wait through them.... people seem to want everything NOW.
Oz Spade: Oh cool Harris
Lo Jacobs: Me too Oz :-/
Nala Galatea: No Host Chat woot!
Aurael Neurocam: honestly, when you first come in
Aurael Neurocam: it's a bit overwhelming
Jesse Linden: those videos are less than 30 secs
Aurael Neurocam: and the WA is WAY too crowded
Mulch Ennui: the pacing on the vids in WA is pretty darn slow
Lethe Naumova: I would suggest something less open ended for new players
Nala Galatea really can't wait for 2nd orientation Island to open =)
Jesse Linden: not sure how to get snappier than that
Harris Hare: I can't wait all minute! ;)
Aurael Neurocam: I'd like to see the ability to set Home to other places besides the WA
Harris Hare: Just kidding.
Psyra Extraordinaire: They are slowed down by lag I think, I watched just one of them and it lasted over 4 minutes.
Aurael Neurocam: might make it easier for newbies to navigate
Oz Spade: Video streaming kinda sucks too.
Jesse Linden: as ive said before, if yuo have videos or would like to build them
Jesse Linden: SEE ME
Oz Spade: Honestly the quicktime implementation is crappy.
Jonquille Noir: Videos tend to crash me so I never watch them
Nala Galatea sees Jesse =)
Jesse Linden: Ill Pay You
Mulch Ennui: im an editor, give me footage ill try to pace them better
Harris Hare: I may Jesse. I'm pretty handy in the video editing dept.
Psyra Extraordinaire: Nala spies with her little eye....
Blue Linden: Yeah! Videos are extremely helpful!
Nala Galatea: They should be linked outside of SL though
Jesse Linden: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Jesse Linden: trying to be subtle her
Psyra Extraordinaire: I'd warm up more to audio tracks, myself. They're 100% more compatible, pretty much.
Jesse Linden: e
Blue Linden: SOLAR IXTAB DOENST GET $$$$$$$ BUT HE DOES GET A TURN ON THE BOX!
Nala Galatea: Because the inworld player isn't exactly the most stable =P
The Soapbox: Solar Ixtab is on the soapbox now!
Kazanture Aleixandre: send introduction videos to newbie's email addresses. Or let them easily download from the site where can they find easily.sry i am a newbie also
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Kazanture Aleixandre: i never watched one of them
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Solar Ixtab: I'll be quick here - There's been some mention of mailing lists, is there a possibility that subscribe/unsubscribe for publically joinable lists can be added to the my account section?
Lo Jacobs: Excellent idea
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Solar Ixtab: Basically theres little to no info about what announcement lists exist.
Jesse Linden: we're working on that, solar
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Jesse Linden: I will not hush!
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Solar Ixtab: So a description that goes with that would be excelent. That's all, thanks for your time.
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Psyra Extraordinaire: =D
Harris Hare: Heh.
Frans Charming: :)
Oz Spade: Excellent Idea.
The Soapbox: Justice Soothsayer is on the soapbox now!
Blue Linden: JESKA VS. THE BOX
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Justice Soothsayer: I'm a newbie (<18 days) and just wanted to say a couple of things: (1) SL is outstanding! Lots of fun stuff. (2) Upgrades suck for at least a couple of days, and newbies should be so advised in LARGE LETTERS, EARLY; (3) big diference depending on the P
Justice Soothsayer: PC - I have a laptop which is very slow and and desktop that's a lot better; newbie settings should be something closer to the lowest common denominator PC than advanced. Otherwise, gj LL.
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Lo Jacobs: Does it tell you when your turn on the soapbox is?
Aurael Neurocam: there's a not-publicized feature that lowers visibility when the frame rate goes down
Psyra Extraordinaire: Breaking News! Soapbox: 4 Jeska: 0
Aurael Neurocam: I'd love to see that on by default. :-)
Blue Linden: thanks Justice, the new resident experience is a big topic with community team lately :)
Jeska Linden: :(
Oz Spade: I think SLs current updating system is abit lacking. I'm not sure what the newbie settings are, mine seemed pretty low when I reinstalled.
Psyra Extraordinaire: (Sorry, had to say it) =D
Nala Galatea: No, cuz it says I'm still waiting for my turn on the soapbox when I tried to click again =P
Blue Linden: I am pretty much yelling out who's next :)
Oz Spade: It would be nice if SL didn't have to resintall for each new update.
Blue Linden: box isn't announcing list in order
Lo Jacobs: Ah
Jesse Linden: kick it
Jeska Linden: I didn't fight the box - it was jesse!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Jonquille Noir: Jeska was framed
Blue Linden: OZ, some updates are changes to client.....there was update yesterday that didn't require relog
The Soapbox: You are already in the queue waiting to speak
Blue Linden: so it depends :)
Blue Linden: JESSANT SION IS NEXT TO CHALLENGE THE BOX!
Oz Spade: Well, I mean, people have suggested SL take a more uh modular? updating system, like how some programs will only update files that have changed? I'm not sur exactly on the technicalities ofit.
Psyra Extraordinaire: Considering you pretty much need a cable connection to run SL, the download for me takes mebbe 35-45 seconds.... I don't see that as much of a delay. o.o
The Soapbox: Jessant Sion is on the soapbox now!
Jessant Sion: I would like to see mac bugs treated the same as pc bugs. Right now the mac experience with this update has been abysmal. Many of us on the mac client are crashing whenever we interact with the menu.
Sunshadow Skye: No kidding
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Jessant Sion: Even putting on clothing has become a trial. I have had kernal panics caused by your software and there is a significant memory leak on the mac client that is causing the cache to fill up and crash SL.
Jessant Sion: All this should have been dealt with by now but we are still experiencing this two weeks after the update. I have reported this as a bug and talked numerous times with livehelp. Every response to this issue has been different and lindin labs still hasn't
Jessant Sion: said anything about it in the forums
Jessant Sion: that is all I have to say
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Jonquille Noir: I'm really glad I don't use a Mac :/
Dan Oddfellow: ahah same here
Jeska Linden: Thanks Jessant, we appreciate your frustration - we do track both PC and Mac bugs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, the Mac problem is more likely too many open files... not necessarily memory leaks...
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... if so, it's easily fixed ;)
Psyra Extraordinaire: I only know hwhat I've seen in the Mac secton of tech support forums.
Nala Galatea: If it makes you feel any better, I can't change clothes more than twice before I have to relog on PC so I know that feeling =)
Blue Linden: We can't address technical issues as we are the community team, but more information made available regarding mac issues vs. PC issues would benefit many residents, surely :)
Jeska Linden: Filing bug reports will really help as well.
Sunshadow Skye: Here here
Blue Linden: SAY H'LO TO LO JACOBS, BOX TAMER!
Jessant Sion: I would just like to see someone admit that macs are having problems on the forum and that they are fixing them
Nala Galatea: RAWR!
The Soapbox: Lo Jacobs is on the soapbox now!
Lo Jacobs: Hi :) Just some quick things.
Kaklick Martin: It'd help if the crash reporter didn't crash :-)
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Lo Jacobs: I'm pretty sure there have been some new Mentors added recently due to the increase in the amount of group IM's I get from that group. It's usually ok.
Lo Jacobs: However, I would like to see some meetings after each new batch of Mentors ... just to keep everyone up to date.
Lo Jacobs: Some Mentors have been around a *long* time. Some Mentors also do not know exactly what to do -- I've been asked what they should do, by new Mentors
Phoenix Byrd: eat noobs
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Lo Jacobs: I just think, that with the large amount of Mentors, it would be better to kind of keep us *all* informed of new things that might concern us
Lo Jacobs: Such as this new Help Island
Lo Jacobs: Which was mentioned in a Live Help meeting I think, but I had no idea until I read a thread about it on the forums.
Lo Jacobs: Another thing -- just a pet peeve -- BRING BACK LANDMARKING FROM THE MAP, it's tough to tell newbies about map coordinates and such.
Lo Jacobs: Thanks :)
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Psyra Extraordinaire: There's also a few mentors out there that have collected a lot of useful info in hard-copy over the months... things that can be useful to the entire mentor group at large. Such as Kex's infamous notes.
Blue Linden: heheh, thanks LO :)
Johnathan Padar: i bet if a newb was to mess with photoshop alot and has had played there, then they would be fairly brained at sl
Jeska Linden: Good comments Lo, I've got some response for ya..
Jeska Linden: first, the mentors program is undergoing a bit of transition at the moment, we're hoping to have Mentors assist with the new Help Island - which is still in the planning stages.
Oz Spade: All good points Lo, I dind't know there was a Help Island till now.
Frans Charming: Agree, with Lo abiut the Landmarks
Frans Charming: Oh is the island already up?
Jeska Linden: No - it's still in the planning stages.
Dnate Mars: Pathfinder needs to update his picks, those are always a good thing to give pout
Psyra Extraordinaire: Not yet. :>
Jeska Linden: As I mentioned above :)
Blue Linden: (island not up yet)
Jeska Linden: Also, I'd love to see Mentors do more self-organizing - with an ever growing group, it becomes ever harder for LL to 'manage'
Jeska Linden: Also, I'd love to see Mentors do more self-organizing - with an ever growing group, it becomes harder for LL to manage.
Jeska Linden: lagggg
Psyra Extraordinaire: video card issues>
Lo Jacobs: Hehe :)
Jeska Linden: ry, lagging
Frans Charming: Help them set that up.
Jeska Linden: So Lo, if you're interested in helping with self-organizing, please let me know.
Lo Jacobs: Sure, ok
Lo Jacobs gave you .: Luxe Brand - Shy.
Nala Galatea: Yay for Lo =D
Jeska Linden: :)
Blue Linden: BROTHER BLUE IS NEXT IN QUEUE :D
Nala Galatea: If you need help I'm here for that too =)
Jeska Linden: Nala - thanks :)
Blue Linden: IS BLUEMAN STILL HERE?
Jeska Linden: Send me an im for folowup
Nala Galatea: =)
Psyra Extraordinaire: I see no Blueman.
Johnathan Padar: lol
Psyra Extraordinaire: Blueman Steel has Left the Building.
Blue Linden: OKAY PHOENIX YOU"RE UP :)
Dnate Mars: I am a blue man, but I don't want the floor....
Johnathan Padar: click the box and leave
Phoenix Byrd: me?
Psyra Extraordinaire: Must be you, I'm not currently a phoenix. :D
Blue Linden: ONLY IF YOU"D LIKE PHOENIX, we won't force you ;)
The Soapbox: Phoenix Byrd is on the soapbox now!
India Ingersoll: ao off
The Soapbox: Shhh...
Phoenix Byrd: Okies... *cough cough* What's going on with the linux client? I'd really like to switch back to linux as SL runs way faster then it does for me in windows. For sum reason, windows just hogs all my memory. GO MICROSOFT WOOT!
Phoenix Byrd: that's all
Garnet Psaltery: Helloo have I missed everything?
The Soapbox: Shhh...
The Soapbox: The soapbox is now free
Frans Charming: alot
Garnet Psaltery: :o(
Frans Charming: But there will be a transcript no doubt.
Psyra Extraordinaire: Garnet: Not everything. nly about 90% I think.... sorry. BUt it'll be posted of course. And you can click the box if you got a Q.... unlike the old town halls there is still time. =D
Blue Linden: not sure about linux.....maybe we should have a DEV ROUNDTABLE and make those guys face the gamut ;)
Frans Charming: yes!
Blue Linden: I'll see what I can find out for you though Phoenix
Frans Charming: :p
Phoenix Byrd: can I poke em?
Phoenix Byrd: tyty Blue :)
Blue Linden: nerf guns work well with Devs
Jonquille Noir: Pass out cattleprods at that one
Solar Ixtab: Blue - A dev roundtable would probably be pretty uncivil :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... there have been a few
Aurael Neurocam: I'm keeping a log of the whole chat, if someone needs a copy
Aurael Neurocam: easy enough to do, clipboard and all. ;-)
Blue Linden: ID LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE FOR COMING TODAY! PLEASE LET ROBIN AND PATHFINDER KNOW THAT I DID NOT SCREW UP THE MEETING ROYAL AS PREDICTED ;)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
annie Lily: lol
Oz Spade: Haha
Solar Ixtab: lol
Phoenix Byrd: lol
Vanethica Canetti: As usual I get here tooooo late
Oz Spade: Nice work Blue. :)
Gwyneth Llewelyn rates Blue on his event hosting skills ;)
Psyra Extraordinaire: (Doh, sorry, I was gonna make ya a notecard with it, Garnet, but I just relogged to fix video problems and just realized I forgot to save it. :(
ReallyRick Metropolitan: It worked MUCH BETTER with the soapbox
Sunshadow Skye: ;)
Jonquille Noir: Well done Blue
Blue Linden: IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE ADDED TO THE COMMUNITY MAILING LIST I CAN GET YOU HOOKED UP
Psyra Extraordinaire: Yes. Yay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Thinker's technology ;)
Aurael Neurocam: yes, please blue!!!
Lo Jacobs: Thanks Blue!
Harris Hare: Soapbox is great. Keep using it.
Oz Spade: Be sure to save the chat log Blue or JEska
Blue Linden: IF YOU WOULD LIKE PIZZA I CAN HOOK YOU UP TOO

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